Battling With Taboos
ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED IN THE FRIDAY TIMES
My good old school days are among the most cherished memories of my life. Back in those days, the most worrying thing in life was an incomplete homework or a pending assignment. Now as we grow up, responsibilities have piled up and the little things that meant the world to us do not have the same impact. Back in those days, parents’ biggest concern was discipline in school. I remember my mother complaining about teachers giving too much homework or giving harsh punishments. However, times have changed now and so have people.
Recent news about protests by fifth-grade students of a well known public school in Karachi,against a course book startled me. It was shocking to hear about nine year old students going on a strike against the administration over a textbook. The students were reported to have been expelled by the school administration. Well deserved I thought. My conclusion was based solely on the fact that any private institute would consider protests and strikes as a strong challenge to discipline. Therefore, I wondered what exactly the kids were thinking and why the parents were not concerned. My queries soon revealed reports about not only the parents but also the involvement of education authorities. The uproar was over a Science textbook that included chapters regarding reproduction and contraceptives. Apparently, the parents found it to be too much information for their children aged nine or ten. The protests were blown further out of proportion when school authorities claimed that there was nothing wrong with using those course books.
The incident baffled me in so many ways, considering this was a private school for girls only. I saw no problem in educating young women about contraceptives and reproduction. The story was dubbed a protest against sex education for young children. I beg to differ for the simple reason that a science book containing information regarding reproduction is not really sex education. This might well be considered the Pakistani version of it, but by all other means, it is not. Sex education involves educating pupil with ‘demonstrational help from anatomical models’, it further expands to educating them on contraceptives with an aim to spread HIV awareness and cut down teen pregnancies. However, including a chapter on reproduction or contraceptives is nowhere comparable to actual sex education and its aims. Moreover what struck me most were the children who went on registering their protest saying ‘we don’t want to read this, because its dirty’. That phrase triggered a completely new debate in my mind allowing our society to keep making taboos and hushing facts off the shelf. It is simply insane to tag something as natural as sex as ‘dirty’ for growing children. It is as if we are making a mockery for them to discover later. Surely, the means of discovery wouldn’t be pleasant if we don’t allow schools to teach this. How else would growing children learn about these issues? The same old adolescents succumbing to peer pressure and being exposed to the world of porn, I bet that ’s not dirty. My point is that by being so unreasonably taut about things that are natural we are only pushing people towards other morally forbidden things. My argument is not about sex education or porn: it is about the ways we view things as a society. It is about the ways in which our decision to protest or favour something effects the society as a whole. The ignorance does not end here. We continue to snub incidents of paedophilia and child molestation, showing our deepest shock over the incidents but nodding in disapproval on the idea of awareness and debate.
While I express my deepest concern over the issue, I am sure many would disagree. Many would want to argue that it is their right to condemn things they feel are bad for their children. But I sense yet more hypocrisy in this argument. In case I am wrong, which I might as well be, I would love to hear an explanation from parents as to why there were no protests regarding a violation of law from a school of advanced studies? Is it because it touched no taboos? I find no other reasons for the absence of an outburst after finding out that an educational institute was involved in electricity theft. This was not just minor electricity theft but a planned heist which involved stealing electricity for over three years. The school under discussion is reported to have stolen over 6 million rupees worth of electricity. Yet we see no protest and no worrisome parents bothered about the impact. Is it not fairly hypocritical of us to be concerned over a text book and not be bothered about our children studying at an educational institute accused to have stolen from the state?.
The incident clearly has more to do with touching taboos than being immoral. We would rather keep the taboo untouched and preserved than explore and discuss the issue. It is appalling that even with an increase in reported cases of paedophilia most of us continue to live in the bliss of ignorance. It might sound unreasonable to the pietistic mind but sex is as much a part of our lives as anything else.
It is widely accepted all over the world that young people have the right to know about sex education in order to educate them on abuse, sexually-transmitted diseases and sexual exploitation. How else can we expect to prevent paedophilia and protect our children from being molested? We are battling with an increased incidence of rape, harassment, exploitation cases and a hike in sexually transmitted diseases.
There is no other way to prevent these incidents other than awareness, concern and education. It is the right of every child to be holistically educated about natural acts such as sex. It is their right as individuals to be aware of the physiological, moral, and social aspects of human sexuality. As far as Islam is concerned, I am sure we all know that it encourages spreading knowledge and breaking taboos. Not only that it also encourages healthy exploration and goes on to snub barriers that might prevent us from asking questions even on matters of sexuality.
While we debate the suitable age for this kind of awareness, we must keep in mind the cases of children as young as three being raped. Awareness by means of educating an individual is the only way to break free from the taboos that haunt us. After all taboos are the creations of people who lack the courage to live and who imposed these things upon us in the guise of morals and religion.
man the previous post had too many errors:
Accept this one:
___________________
Please doesn’t mind but you really need to do some ground work before such posts? From the outlook it sounds as if this is AMERICA and it stuck you that why educating about contraceptives is a BIG DEAL here.
In your whole post you dint write a single line on the reasons why those people were thinking the way they were thinking. Your argument roams around the FRUITs and not the ROOTs. You saying that “I saw no problem in educating young women about contraceptives and reproduction” are very naïve. If you can’t see it, how it means your opinion is right? In a country where women can’t leave their home without a male accompanying them you expect them to be liberal in expecting things which are taboo? How can you so naively put all those questions?
This is not about RIGHT or WRONG. This is about the relative SOCIAL environment in your country. If Americans can eat ten mangoes that’s fine, but here its ‘IMMORAL’ to eat more than two, now you can either fight against their reasoning and convince them on 3 and then 4 and so on or defy all restrictions JUST BECAUSE you consider yourself RIGHT and HIGHLY LIBERAL EDUCATION fellow. Much of your views are from MY-PERSPECTIVE attitude.
You said:
“Moreover what struck me most were the children who went on registering their protest . . . . . . . something as natural as sex as ‘dirty’ for growing children”
So the attitude of some 9 year olds struck you? From the way our environment feeds our generations YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN struck if they had stated otherwise. Your mind is questioning the wisdom of some 9 year old kids, who have no intellect to start with at that age. They even don’t know what they are saying. It has been fed in their mouth by their parents/relatives/etc. They are not HIGHLY enlightened like you who are quite comfortable to discuss sex and related issues.
You have tried to build a case for yourself just because you see LIFE from a different angle and expect everyone else to see it that way. There are one million ways in which one million people can see issue from one single POINT. From a technical point of view I tilt on your side but a fair analysis will question your insistence on I-SEE-THINGs this way and all others should too.
I know you are not forcing your views, but you are explaining an event in that manner. You have to understand your society first before commenting on its behavior. If you are stunned on their response to an event it means you didn’t understand them at first place. Its okay for a girl and guy from upper class to shake hands in public but it’s a HUGE problem to sit/stand next to a male in some other sections of society. You should have first done some homework on this. There is BIG social/religious/moral/cultural and mix of other variables that RESULT in such an attitude. You should understand the person first before you understand his attitude.
You question that:
“why there were no protests regarding a violation of law from a school of advanced studies? . . “ and then you mention the electricity example . .
I mean seriously, this is funny. So are you implying that if violating law is wrong and no one usually protests it means one should also not protest some other thing they think wrong? Where is the HUMAN RIGHT part your argument about them protesting a thing they consider wrong? If they think its wrong they have a right to protest, IS IT NOT A SIMPLE LOGIC? (Supposing the means is fair)
I agree to your hypocrisy part but then there can be million why’s around? Or may be trillion over last 62 years. You can bring every other story in which something wrong was done and no protest was made to ARGUE why a protest now.
Your society is in a complete collapse. Stealing electricity or misuse of power is not an issue but anything attributed to woman, religion etc. is a BIG ISSUE. And this all is because of the decades of brainwashing by our political MASTERs to establish a RADICAL theocracy. You didn’t tough a single aspect of it in your post, did you? Or maybe you dint realize this aspect at all.
“It is widely accepted all over the world that young people have the right to know about sex education . . . . . . “
One can quote you thousand of WIDELY-ACCEPTED things over the world, and that doesn’t put weight in your argument. Why people compare our country with other nation for selective aspects?
Is it widely accepted in the world to allow an NRO-fied president in power?
Is a Chief Justice dragged by hair accepted in the world?
Is it widely accepted to rape a woman by some self made judges in a village (Mukhtara mai)?
Is an ordinary COAS allowed to crush CONSITUTION 4 times in a democracy over the world?
ALL above are pretty much norm in a society YOU are stunned about.
Why we compare apple with oranges in our political and social arguments?
One line from your ending part is I think the most sensible and appropriate i.e
“The incident clearly has more to do with touching taboos than being immoral. We would rather keep the taboo untouched and preserved than explore and discuss the issue . . “
Before you get struck and stunned, you should emphasis more on DISCUSSING such issues rather defying the prevalent (GOOD or BAD) norms of the society you live in. Once you encourage such a debate/ discussions you will see we are not suppose to BLINDLY follow what is (in your language) WIDELY ACCEPTED for other societies. We need our own definition of a BALANCED society which should be not too open for us to kick our roots out and nor too close for an intellectual suffocation.
RADICAL** theocracy
Please doesn’t mind but you really need to do some ground work before such posts? From the outlook it sounds as if this is AMERICA and it stuck you that why educating about contraceptives is a BIG DEAL here.
In your whole post you dint write a single line on the reasons why those people were thinking the way they were thinking. Your argument roams around the FRUITs and not the ROOTs. You saying that “I saw no problem in educating young women about contraceptives and reproduction” are very naïve. If you can’t see it, how it means your opinion is right? In a country where women can’t leave their home without a male accompanying them you expect them to be liberal in expecting things which are taboo? How can you so naively put all those questions?
This is not about RIGHT or WRONG. This is about the relative SOCIAL environment in your country. If Americans can eat ten mangoes that’s fine, but here its ‘IMMORAL’ to eat more than two, now you can either fight against their reasoning and convince them on 3 and then 4 and so on or defy all restrictions JUST BECAUSE you consider yourself RIGHT and HIGHLY LIBERAL EDUCATION fellow. Much of your views are from MY-PERSPECTIVE attitude.
You said:
“Moreover what struck me most were the children who went on registering their protest . . . . . . . something as natural as sex as ‘dirty’ for growing children”
So the attitude of some 9 year olds struck you? From the way our environment feeds our generations YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN struck if they had stated otherwise. Your mind is questioning the wisdom of some 9 year old kids, who have no intellect to start with at that age. They even don’t know what they are saying. It has been fed in their mouth by their parents/relatives/etc. They are not HIGHLY enlightened like you who are quite comfortable to discuss sex and related issues.
You have tried to build a case for yourself just because you see LIFE from a different angle and expect everyone else to see it that way. There are one million ways in which one million people can see issue from one single POINT. From a technical point of view I tilt on your side but a fair analysis will question your insistence on I-SEE-THINGs this way and all others should too.
I know you are not forcing your views, but you are explaining an event in that manner. You have to understand your society first before commenting on its behavior. If you are stunned on their response to an event it means you didn’t understand them at first place. Its okay for a girl and guy from upper class to shake hands in public but it’s a HUGE problem to sit/stand next to a male in some other sections of society. You should have first done some homework on this. There is BIG social/religious/moral/cultural and mix of other variables that RESULT in such an attitude. You should understand the person first before you understand his attitude.
You question that:
“why there were no protests regarding a violation of law from a school of advanced studies? . . “ and then you mention the electricity example . .
I mean seriously, this is funny. So are you implying that if violating law is wrong and no one usually protests it means one should also not protest some other thing they think wrong? Where is the HUMAN RIGHT part your argument about them protesting a thing they consider wrong? If they think its wrong they have a right to protest, IS IT NOT A SIMPLE LOGIC? (Supposing the means is fair)
I agree to your hypocrisy part but then there can be million why’s around? Or may be trillion over last 62 years. You can bring every other story in which something wrong was done and no protest was made to ARGUE why a protest now.
Your society is in a complete collapse. Stealing electricity or misuse of power is not an issue but anything attributed to woman, religion etc. is a BIG ISSUE. And this all is because of the decades of brainwashing by our political MASTERs to establish a RADIAL theocracy. You didn’t tough a single aspect of it in your post, did you? Or maybe you dint realize this aspect at all.
“It is widely accepted all over the world that young people have the right to know about sex education . . . . . . “
One can quote you thousand of WIDELY-ACCEPTED things over the word, and that doesn’t put weight in your argument. Why people compare our country with other nation for selective aspects?
Is it widely accepted in the world to allow an NRO-fied president in power?
Is a Chief Jusitce dragged by hair accepted in the world?
Is it widely accepted to rape a woman by some self made judges in a village (Mukhtara mai)?
Is an ordinary COAS allowed to crush CONSITUTION 4 times in a democracy over the world?
ALL above are pretty much norm in a society YOU are stunned about.
Why we compare apple with oranges in our political and social arguments?
One line from your ending part is I think the most sensible and appropriate i.e
“The incident clearly has more to do with touching taboos than being immoral. We would rather keep the taboo untouched and preserved than explore and discuss the issue . . “
Before you get struck and stunned, you should emphasis more on DISCUSSING such issues rather defying the prevalent (GOOD or BAD) norms of the society you live in. Once you encourage such a debate/ discussions you will see we are not suppose to BLINDLY follow what is (in your language) WIDELY ACCEPTED for other societies. We need our own definition of a BALANCED society which should be not too open for us to kick our roots our and nor too close for an intellectual suffocation.
Another taboo is deleting people’s blog address in the URL. I won’t comment on this blog again.
The problem is not in educating girls but the fact that they are too young. The students themselves did not want to learn about sex and protested.
@ Beautiful Mind
I can see why you would draw that conclusion but something that you need to understand is, but I take what ever good I find from everywhere.
You might not be a maulvi but I am and I dont see anything wrong with being one.
If you look at it from a religious point of view, Islam is the only religion that gives women rights to work. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism as a religion do not, yet there are more working women in the west. So the west has adopted what we were taught. Where in Islam does it say not to educate your kid about sex ?? In Islam Hazrat Ayesha was married at 9, and your saying no sex ed till when ??
Hope you see my point here =)
Why has Aly B been ignored? Are you being sarcastic, none of those point about our country are true. Do you even know anything about Pakistan? I am gobsmacked!
hey welcome to my blog and thanks for your comment
yes he is being sarcastic, and I forgot to reply back to him in all the frenzy.
Thanks for getting the gist of the piece.
Can I firstly clarify that I am a female, I do not really appreciate being referred to as a male.
I am finding it very difficult to comprehend what Mr Adnan writes since his written English is extremely poor. I am just going to respond to his sole comment aimed at me.
‘Mian did you learn nomenclature,Algebra and trigonometry at age of 8? Can anyone here tell me when did he/she learn dissection of frog? at age of 9 or in grade 9? Why it’s like that we are not taught university level courses in early stage of education?’
Actually, I did start learning algebra and very advance literature at the age of 9/10. I hate these comments where people claim children that age can not ‘handle’ information about reproduction. FYI being the ever curious and intelligent child, I did not learn about sex from anybody. I had many encyclopaedias that I loved reading and I stumbled upon what sex was at the age of 8/9 and I really can not say it mentally scarred me. It was only at the age of 12/13 that reproduction was properly taught (read skimmed over) at school.
I believe it is an extremely silly notion to brainwash young children into painting sex as a horrible dirty deed. Paedophillia is rife in Pakistan and a lot of girls I personally know have been subjected to some form of sexual abuse when they were children but never had the guts to tell their parents because they either didn’t understand it or were ashamed about it. Open your eyes everybody and educate your children.
@ Fahad
I agree with what you have to say, this is not about ego or even a debate as far as I am concerned, I was just trying to show him how rude and impolite his tone his. Nothing more, nothing less. Calling the writer and others as “little girls” and the sarcastic “mian” touch is not very appreciated by anyone.
As far as education is concerned and comparison, I was comparing the model of education and not the exposure to sex. Sex ed has nothing to do with exposure to sex. Its more or less a biology book. Biology books in Pakistan are more detailed then in Canada (I can not say about UK or US). So that is more or less a myth, on the exposure level, Pakistanis are more exposed to sex but all of it in the wrong context because of the lack of sex ed.
One more thing that I would like to add is that as the Adviser told the press that “this is not England, Canada or US, this is Pakistan”. This is precisely why we should emphasize more on proper education content because children who live in Europe or North America have much more exposure to the things that the children living in Pakistan don’t. So, we can’t compare our country to theirs.
@ Waqas.
First of all, I would say lets not make this an issue of insult or ego. This is a dialogue or a debate whatever you may call it. Everybody has its own opinion and has the right to express it as ling as it is in the prescribed limits.
Secondly, I agree with what you have said. I saw the video too and those children were too immature to judge what are they being taught and what is right for them. The matter that was included in that book was not obscene in any way. There were topics related to contraceptives, reproduction and other stuff. There was not any nude picture of any human being.
We as a society should realize that it is high time that parents should put some faith in the schools and the content that is being taught there.
I agree that there is a certain limit to what should be taught but the content that the book had was not that advanced.
A/c to what I think may be there is some peer pressure due to which children behave the way they did but that is normal. In our society there a certain stigma associated the word “SEX” and I think that to a certain extent it is right. This way we as children and as adults refrain to talk about this issue to our parents and our children but then this is where our teachers jump in and fill the gap. They are given this responsibility of teaching our children things which we as elders feel reluctant to talk about.
So, as far as the discussion of this topic is concerned, I think we as a society still believe in respecting our religion, moral values and our ethics but at the same time there should be some knowledge as to what could be the adversities if a child does get into trouble with this.
P.S. Lets not fight on this. We can also settle on one thing with a polite talk!!
@ Adnan and others (except the first para)
Oh, btw I forgot something “Mr Professional” that your video is a kids opinion (which might be higher then your IQ either way) which is a professional opinion in your view but not in mine.
Secondly, the man clearly says it, this is not America, this not England or Canada, this is Pakistan.
Which says, we are a third world country and would never change or even begin to do what the first world countries are doing because we want the following to continue:
We will not teach our students about sex even if a guy tricks them and rapes them. We will not teach them about reproduction because we want 13 year old mothers in Pakistan (which does happen, little to your knowledge). You might get molested by your teachers, uncles, drivers and workers but you wont find out till your too old and emotionally scared for life. Mr Professional, this is what Pakistan is today and this is what it will be unless we change.
This video proves and shows nothing except that how undereducated a middle school Pakistani is. Their vision is as small as the guy next door and these kids say they don’t want to read it because they have been taught that sex is a wrong thing.
It is a natural phenomena of life and unless and until we treat it like this and not make it such a big taboo, it is really not a big deal. If your mind set is like ” OMG, SEX !! WTFF” then, only God help you, learning about sex doesn’t make you go out and have sex. It educates you not to do it before time else their are consequences.
@Waqas, I would completely agree with Adnan who has precisely pointed out the real problem. We always take west as ‘guiding light’ or ‘best practices’ despite we have very strong values and social system. Above all we are the ones blessed with divine guidance, Qura’n. I am not molvi at all but Yes I am a father of a girl (8 months) and can feel it. We strongly condemn and have fear about ‘Talibanization’, but we dont feel our own Westernization. Kindly dont stray from what you actually are.
@ Adnan
At least that proves you have a single digit IQ. You were posing question that suggested “these situations are not true, therefore I am right”. Unless you were talking to yourself (which I assume is how you pass your time).
So I said, every single statement you made is true. I don’t have to advocate my statement to you. Who are you ?? and what makes you think I care about what you do in your own little world. All I said is, what your saying is not possible or does not happen”Mr professional (since we all are not)” . It does happen and is possible. Simple enough.
Therefore you are wrong. Should I spell it out ? May be you exceeded you vocab limit of the day.
The problem with you “Mian Adnan” is that you talk a lot and don’t listen enough and then you forget what you were saying. Before reading any other post’s, I suggest you go over yours.
Also your welcome, the pleasure was all mine.
@ Faiza
The only person who started to get personal and started judging others was none other then “Mr Professional” himself Mian Adnan
P.S Mian Adnan, I hope you catch on to the sarcasm and don’t flatter yourself.
After watching the video posted on Youtube, I feel that I actually agree with Adnan’s point of view that children of 6th and 7th grade are not mature enough to handle all such information. There is a difference between teaching biology and teaching sex education. I have two kids of my own and I can actually feel that id know when would be the right time to talk to them about sex and related topics.
However, Adnan Sahib, this post is not about what is the right age for sex education in Pakistan. This post touches upon the subject of comparing our social reaction to various events. Sana has mentioned the Dawood School event only to highlight the difference in reaction of parents to two events. She wishes her readers to realize that its not ok to create so much brohuaha about one thing and then keep quiet on an even major and unlawful event.
Sana, id like to add one thing though, it is not necessary to teach sex education to children as young as these as a separate subject. Children this age can benefit a lot more from a teacher who is talking about behaviors of society in general and teaching them how to protect themselves in adverse situations. They should tell the students to beware of strangers and what kind of situations could arise. The children should be made aware of the fact that its ok to talk to an adult about molestations and their fears and whatever happened need not be their fault!
I strongly beleive that behavioral education AT THIS AGE in a child’s life will do him much more good than reading about contraceptives and details of the process of reproduction. Heck! how many children of this age have ever seen a condom or will see one anytime soon?
I do totally agree with Sana on this point though that we should be more open to talk to our children and make them aware of the problems that they could face and NOT consider such talks taboo. They should get an understanding of it, but not necessarily down to the last minutest detail.
May Allah keep every kid safe and sound!
P.S: This could have been a healthy discussion but I am kind of disappointed to see it turning so ugly and personal.
Thank you so much for your comments and thanks for brining in some sanity with you too. This article was NEVER advocating sex education. I am glad you understood the relevance of it, let me also post my first response to Adnan in which I clarified as well
@ adnan: I have indeed read your comments, and would urge you to plz read and re read my post again. If I wish to advocate the ’school’ in question I would have done so, my post is not about advocating it, my post is a comparison between two situations. It is really sad that our society doesn’t know what to stand for, they react in various ways for various things.
I respect your opinion, but this is a fact juts the way our society is, you have all rights to believe what you want to , I can only reason with you by means of logical comparisons. It is NOT a debate, it is what I felt and what I deduced from the situation.
The only thing that ticked me off were the graphically detailed comments that came after.
I wonder whether the expert Sana Saleem watch the video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzrwRC7TPAc
yes please watch the video
-Can you tell me how teaching about condoms,birth control pills comes under the category of “studying of reproductive system”?
-Also, how do you advocate about am “Islamic” book which is even banned in “secular” Malaysia because the book has offensive text for the prophet of Islam?
with reference to point 1 and keeping in mind the curious nature of little kids, the “Examples” I gave about kids questioning about condoms etc, is it not true?
Blogging is good activity but there should be some sort of responsibility when reports some event. you had NO idea what are you reporting about. All you saw that some students are against “Sex education” and it irked you alot and you made a post by labeling it “Battling with Taboos”. Internet is for everyone. you could show some sort of sensibility by knowing the whole incident but then we have blogger version of Hamid Mir,Shahid Masood ,Zaid Hamid and Nazir Naji too who just wants to talk for sake of nothing.
it does not harm me at all when single women like you,tazeen or maybe BinaShah,the “renowed” writer busy in babbling and backbiting. Learn to argue with facts rather act like a “typical pakistani women” who just curse like Meera rather reply sensibily.
Now go thru the video, go thru the whole case, spend time with little kids then make some post and pass remarks. That way you would be consider credible among your readers regardless of they agree with you or oppose with you. Funniest thing is that people who are supporting sana are not even aware the incident at all but yet they are busy to “prove” their friendship with sana. Amazing guys! lol. Sana et all. If this is what you are then may God save us from such future parents and their future generations.
You guys seem to sleep on wrong side of the bed i guess.
Dear Adnan
Your comments are enlightening and I think you should write a blog yourself and help educate these immoral sex-education touting liberal ladies and other such people who will turn our nation into a bunch of morally corrupt and sexually promiscous people.
I hope you will let me know when your blog is up and you are spreading your light into the darkness of these western-promoted pseudo-muslims.
We have been blessed with 160 million people who are of the purest of morals and who go about in their daily lives according to the teachings of Islam. We are Masha’Allah free of any corruption either at a personal level or on a state level, and our leaders possess a soul so pure that many in the world envy us for this. We are literate people who know the meaning of morals, human rights, and the rights of our neighbors and fellow citizens. Our country is free from the evil of hoarding and price hikes and our traffic signals are unique in that we do not have any beggars.
We are also blessed with a society where prostitution is unheard of and where rape and molestation of women is virutally non-existent. The crime rate in our cities is so low that one can carry around sacks of gold without any worries.
Our economy is based on the concept that Riba is haraam and a war against Allah and His messenger. Our traders are known for giving the full measure and for the purity of our goods.
We are Pakistan, the nation of the Pure.
-Aly
http://discomaulvi.wordpress.com/
http://www.twitter.com/DiscoMaulvi
PLEASE REREAD:
@ adnan: I have indeed read your comments, and would urge you to plz read and re read my post again. If I wish to advocate the ’school’ in question I would have done so, my post is not about advocating it, my post is a comparison between two situations. It is really sad that our society doesn’t know what to stand for, they react in various ways for various things.
I respect your opinion, but this is a fact juts the way our society is, you have all rights to believe what you want to , I can only reason with you by means of logical comparisons. It is NOT a debate, it is what I felt and what I deduced from the situation.
Also more than half of the tweets on twitter that you have been stalking were NOT about you!
Except for the science textbooks one. The others were for people whose comments I had to delete cause of the abusive content. Please refrain from character assassination.
You have the right to hold an opinion and I do too. As I said earlier and went on saying it over and over and OVER again! It is the right of the parent to decide, PLEASE STOP THE TROLL.
Waqas, I could actually be thankful of you If you would have said a single piece of statement which were going to back your/others argument but what all I found tht you wasted all your energy to respond ME rather than the topic. Saying things like,” I have a korean friend”,”single digit IQ”,”black sheep” etc is not going to prove your point. it’s actually showing that you guys are not have a single point to back your stance thus busy to make noise enough so that one could sidetracked from main topic and start “appreciating” ‘brave’ kids like you who made a bravery post!- Ever heard of Ad Hominem fallacy? it seems it was coined for people like you:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
only defeated souls talk like that. grow up my little friends and face the real world which is way different from your imaginary worlds.
Also Mian (lol, never gets old) Adnan “p.s: You little girls are free for backbiting. It actually helps me a lot;). ”
You really live in a world of illusions if you think your being discussed before after or during the whole topic. I am sorry to disappoint you for not helping you.
Did I shatter your glass house. It looked shiny from where u were looking at it.. right ??
Man Adnan. Stop making this an ego problem!!!! Quoting Adnan:”Mian did you learn nomenclature,Algebra and trigonometry at age of 8? Can anyone here tell me when did he/she learn dissection of frog? at age of 9 or in grade 9? Why it’s like that we are not taught university level courses in early stage of education.”
You might be right. may be Sindhu didn’t learn nomenclature or trigonometry when he was 8 but surely he started learning the basics of these things when he was 8. you talk about evolution. To what i know of, evolution mean gradual change, this is precisely what a chapter related to reproduction incorporates in the mind of a child who is as young as 9 or 10. This does not mean telling him/her different postures of what you mentioned in your post above. Sex education in a science book and sex education with demonstrations are two different things. you cannot relate them. I would agree with sana that it is a debatable topic as to what should be the age when these things should be taught to a child, but looking at the present circumstances one should be aware of the fact that things are getting worse as time progresses and even though the extent of knowledge is again debatable but initiation to this kind of education is necessary.
Mian Adnan, you sound really very dumb. What makes you the athority to determine who learns what and when ?
And Mian Adnan “did you learn nomenclature,Algebra and trigonometry at age of 8″
I have a korean friend who did, now what ? your going to put ur tail between your legs and walk away. No, you will keep ranting how you “the know it all kid of the 21st century” is still right.
And also Mian Adanan “Please guys don’t act like an intellectual idiots and give others a reason to laugh at you.”
Your the only one getting laughed at, go up and read, your the only ignorant arrogant single digit IQ holder that can not grasp a simple concept.
Finally Mian Adnan “Amazing to see bachelors like Tazeen,Sana and many other kids are being expert of a topic which they have no idea at all. ”
Its also fun to see people like you trying to stick out a like a black sheep (I dont mean to insult sheep) with your larger then life attitude, unfortunately your brain is not larger then a peanut.
The Womens society of Canada, (pakistani women, married with kids) just had a discussion on this in a meeting and 93% were for it.
So Mian Adnan “Kawa chala hanss ki chaal bhool gaya ” ??
Unfortunately, your the only one applicable for that quote
Glad to see that a lady is worried about fasting and busy in backbiting. Amazing sana saleem. Where did you learn this from? If you don’t find an answer then you start saying stuff like “he has no life” etc?. tsk tsk. hysteria right? why are you cursing others for your own weakness?
And here’s Tazeen, the officer liberal Mullah who just made a post in which she’s was being judgmental about a person and here she’s accusing me.
@Sindhu: Mian did you learn nomenclature,Algebra and trigonometry at age of 8? Can anyone here tell me when did he/she learn dissection of frog? at age of 9 or in grade 9? Why it’s like that we are not taught university level courses in early stage of education?
Please guys don’t act like an intellectual idiots and give others a reason to laugh at you. Fine many people don’t believe in evolution but it should not be an excuse to use brain for figuring things out.
As I said on Faisal’s blog that every education has its right time. Be it religious,scientific or anything else. Kids first school is always their parents then some other institute. Sex education must be giving in the age when a kid can actually grasp it and it should be given by parents. If parents are so retard that they can’t even educate their kids then such parents don’t deserve children at first place.
Amazing to see bachelors like Tazeen,Sana and many other kids are being expert of a topic which they have no idea at all. It’s just like a farmer argue with me about what software methodlogy should I use to write a software. Obviously people will call that farmer mentally disturbed and insane Keep it up!. Pakistan really needs babbling kids like you.
p.s: You little girls are free for backbiting. It actually helps me a lot;).
This Adnan dude is such an ignorant idiot…he probably has never seen a science book before. Learning about reproduction is very different to ‘sex education.’
People like him grate on my nerves so much that I never want to live in the homeland in case I have to communicate with such imbeciles.
I think the children must be given this info very carefully and it must not encourage them to try such things. At the same time, i think in this modern era where are so many bad people in our society looking to hunt the young and there are so many ways to get addict to bad habits , it is a must to give proper guidance to children so that they can be better aware of the consequences.
I actually came here to comment but got side tracked by the dialogue between you and Adnan. I am so glad that he trolls other blogs and passes judgment to other bloggers. I feel vindicated, I am not alone.
hahaha! Indeed! You are not alone! also he is no life! I wanted to reason with him but ended up closing comments for the day, the nonstop insanity isn’t very healthy specially when you r fasting!
am glad u dropped by though, need more sane ppl!
The title is rightly selected as a taboo subject the conservatives fear talking about sex with kids will motivate them for having sex as they are concerned that sex education encourages sex? But there are numerous studies that show child sex education if conducted in a proper way and with precise books will enlighten the children and will compel them not to go for their own adventures. Sex as a natural phenomenon has its own charms and you cannot control or suppress it by using a bunch of hypocritic notions as Sana validly pointed in this blog. Putting it on light note by borrowing lines from the famous comedian Bill Cosby “Sex education may be a good idea in the schools, but I don’t believe the kids should be given homework”
I like bill cobsy for this one haha! have heard it before I think u tweeted it too
, some of the comments really did prove that it was a better nonetheless. It appears that most of the people have never even bothered opening a science book ever, as apparent by comments above. Had to delete many comments too for sanity sake.
For future commentators please see this:
http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/b2536.html
http://www.islamawareness.net/Sex/education.html
Also the purpose is NOT to advocate the age or the education as am neither a teacher nor a mother. The POINT is if we don’t wish to educate them fine, but lets not tell them that something as natural as this is a dirty forbidden taboo! please.
@ adnan : Than you for your rather graphic comments, the thing is please go buy the book read it and tell me if it teaches you the thing you have juts explained. My 8 year old sister does come and ask us questions about child birth, its curiosity. The children are not being taught this by means of slang or porn its a book, it a ‘SCIENCE’ book.
Also people I protest those people who say religion should not be taught at an early age. I think it very well should be taught and practiced and the child should know the practices and should be allowed to question and learn more.
What people do not like is the some Mullah (and dare I generalize) raising child soldiers. NO ONE has the right to boycott early education may it be Islamic or otherwise.
If a child is being taught by means of books in scientific terms and unlike the language you have mentioned, there is nothing wrong. Please refrain from posting more graphic details on my blog. Thank you
The next comment on Uppal’s site was:
I feel irony here. At one side so called intellectuals shout out loud that our Mullahs are polluting young minds by INJECTING Islam at early age because young minds can misinterprte things while on other hands they are going beyond imaginations to convince that it’s OK to tell a 9 year old kid to teach how to perform intercourse.
I would like to see how those parents would react when their curious kids at age of 9 and 10 will ask them in public places that ,”Momma! did Papa make love in that position which our teacher taught in the class?” or “Papa! Did not you use good condoms that I was born!”
Asking young teens to learn about sex education is just like asking 5 years old kid to learn about software methodoligies. Fine we re western enslave mentality but it does not mean We should not use our upper chamber to figure things out.
also this http://www.islamawareness.net/Sex/education.html
For sake of Sana’s easiness and for her readers, I am just pasting comments here:
@Sana Saleem: As I said on Chowrangi website that most of pro-sex education are those who are not yet parents yet they are being expert of the topic and mind of kids at early age.I reproduce those comments here again:
i think when an issue is discussed then it should be discussed in context. Since we re usually inclined towards west therefore we easily refer west’s phenomenon. STD is common in western countries because there even a 13yrs old could become parent and usually girls usually lose their virginity at early age. Definitely such morally corrupt society … Read Moreneeds Sex Ed to save their kids from any STDs and teach them how to use Condoms and other things. In region like subcontinent where we thankfully have joint family system,a kid is always kept an eye by elders so that he does not ruin himself.Instead of we think about restricting pre-maritial sex thing, we are talking about “legalizing” it. some ppl on othr forums referred Islam. Our people who hardly opens Quran try to seek Islam;s shelter to prove their point of view. Islam asks parent to teach their kids good ethics,teach them Namaz at age of 10,12 and make them a better Muslim. Giving sex ed will not make a child a good person.
Those who are so pumped for so called Sex education at age of 10,12,I would request them to be a parent first then comment on the issue which you could actually talk about. It’s easy to become an expert on blogs but so difficult to face the reality.
@ adnan: I have indeed read your comments, and would urge you to plz read and re read my post again. If I wish to advocate the ‘school’ in question I would have done so, my post is not about advocating it, my post is a comparison between two situations. It is really sad that our society doesn’t know what to stand for, they react in various ways for various things.
I respect your opinion, but this is a fact juts the way our society is, you have all rights to believe what you want to , I can only reason with you by means of logical comparisons. It is NOT a debate, it is what I felt and what I deduced from the situation.
Sana,pls do read the comments first then answer me.
As far as what is objectionable and what is not, the video is also posted on same mr uppal’s site.
******* teach your children this ok? you ***** , people like you are always supporting this ****** system. **** you
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Also my comparison is between two things the school stealing electricity received no protests, is theft not against Islam?. My debate starts with not WHY they protested, of course the parents have all rights to decide what they want for their kids. My debate was (and please re read)
“Moreover what struck me most were the children who went on registering their protest saying ‘we don’t want to read this, because its dirty’. That phrase triggered a completely new debate in my mind allowing our society to keep making taboos and hushing facts off the shelf”
Any one and everyone has all rights to decide what their kids should be exposed to and when. The question wasn’t this at all, it quite simply was the notion’ Please tell your kids that its probably not their time to find out and they will as they grow up, if you please, but don’t make them think that a rather natural thing is ‘dirty’ because its not.
@ adnan: No I have’nt read your piece, and this most certainly wasn’t about advocating DPS. It was clearly about how we react to different things in our society, how we choose what to protest about and what not to. Secondly what is against Islam the book containing chapters on reproduction? I don’t see that against Islam at all. Also Islamic countries have been teaching it countries like Iran and Bangladesh. Also whose not aware of what?
profit should be read as “Prophet”?
Sana Saleem
I am sure you would have read my response in reply of your post regarding speaking about in favor of Dawood Public School. If not then you must read it.
One must understand that Education school of Karachi are business now and the “CEO” of DPS must realize that “Clients come first”. At that time we don’t seek excuses of Taboos or anything like that.
Second, how do you define “Taboo”. I don;t understand that how being devils; advocate comes under the category of speaking against Taboo? How come protesting against a book which offends a religion and its profit is considered conservative and backward? Specially when ppl who re talking about it are not themselves are not aware of things?
pls read if you have not:
http://bit.ly/1atV2p